Titan’s Underground Water Lends Support to Creationist Walt Brown

titan_ocean.jpg“We believe that about 62 miles beneath the ice and organic-rich surface is an internal ocean of liquid water mixed with ammonia,” —Bryan Stiles of NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) in, Pasadena, California.

Hmmm … another body in our solar system with an underground ocean. Maybe Creationist Walt Brown’s “Underground Ocean on Earth Prior to the Global Flood” idea isn’t so crazy after all! Don’t forget about Enceladus, that other little moon of Saturn’s which not only has underground water but is also still spewing. And don’t forget about Venus which–like the postulated event on earth at the time of the Global Flood–got a total resurfacing job.

You can read about Walt Brown’s Hydroplate Theory at http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/HydroplateOverview2.html

You could also search my blog for the word “hydroplate” as I have written about it several times.
Here’s the article which appears today in Science Magazine…

Science 21 March 2008:
Vol. 319. no. 5870, pp. 1649 – 1651

Titan’s Rotation Reveals an Internal Ocean and Changing Zonal Winds

Ralph D. Lorenz,1* Bryan W. Stiles,2 Randolph L. Kirk,3 Michael D. Allison,4 Paolo Persi del Marmo,5 Luciano Iess,5 Jonathan I. Lunine,6 Steven J. Ostro,2 Scott Hensley2

I don’t know about you, but I think it’s high time that geologists quit laughing at Walt Brown, as many mainstream scientists have laughed at pioneers of the past, and start investigating his theory in a serious way. Sorry, but mainstream theories for the explanation of the geologic record on Planet Earth are weak.

I started discussions on this topic HERE and HERE and it seems that some people are relying on old information about Titan. Apparently, scientists used to believe that the crust of Titan was mostly ice, but it is now known to be much more diverse in it’s composition. Go to Science Daily and do a search of recent article on Titan and you will find quite a bit. Here’s a sampling …


Science News

Titan’s Seas Are Sand, Cassini’s Images Of Saturn’s Moon Show

ScienceDaily (May 8, 2006) — Until a couple of years ago, scientists thought the dark equatorial regions of Titan
might be liquid oceans. New radar evidence shows they are seas — but seas of sand dunes like those in the Arabian or Namibian Deserts, a University of Arizona member of the Cassini radar team and colleagues report in Science (May 5).

They are not yet sure what the “sand” is composed of, but it is obvious that the crust of Titan is NOT like a giant iceberg floating on water.

Here’s another article from Science Daily that shows “hydrocarbon pools” amid “icy and rocky terrain.”

Titan’s Surface Organics Surpass Oil Reserves On EarthScienceDaily (Feb. 21, 2008) — Saturn’s orange moon Titan has hundreds of times more liquid hydrocarbons than all the known oil and natural gas reserves on Earth, according to new data from NASA’s Cassini spacecraft. The hydrocarbons rain from the sky, collecting in vast deposits that form lakes and dunes.

The new findings from the study led by Ralph Lorenz, Cassini radar team member from the Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory, Laurel, Md., are reported in the Jan. 29 issue of the Geophysical Research Letters.

“Titan is just covered in carbon-bearing material — it’s a giant factory of organic chemicals,” said Lorenz. “This vast carbon inventory is an important window into the geology and climate history of Titan.”

3 Responses to “Titan’s Underground Water Lends Support to Creationist Walt Brown”

  1. lordkalvan says:

    This is a verbatim copy of the OP of a thread you have started at Rants ‘n Raves. I could reiterate the counterpoints that have been made there to show how the evidence from Titan can in no way be used to support Brown’s hydroplate ideas in respect of Earth, but it would probably be easier if interested readers just followed the link below and read them for themselves:


  2. lordkalvan says:

    Despite the numerous differences between Earth and Titan that you have had pointed out to you in the debate linked to above and that make the comparison between the two bodies irrelevant in contriving some sort of support for Brown’s hydroplate theory, you persist in making this unwarranted claim. Just some of the points you have been pointed towards that undermine your argument include:

    Titan has a mass a fraction that of Earth’s, yet you claimed that Titan was ‘not much smaller than’ Earth. Enceladus is even tinier. How does this make for a relevant comparison amongst the three bodies?

    A postulated ‘underground ocean’ 62 miles below the surface of Titan bears no similarity to Brown’s Fountains of the Deep 10 miles below the surface of Earth. You have been shown the physics that make Brown’s idea an absurdity.

    The density of Titan is less than a third that of Earth’s and less than twice that of ice. That the surface of Titan ‘floats’ on an ‘underground ocean’ again provides no evidence, speculative or otherwise, that Brown’s Fountains of the Deep ever existed on Earth. The example of Titan is no more than a red herring in this instance.

    It is a straightforward observation that there is evidence for Titan’s ‘underground ocean’. It is an equally straightforward observation that there is no evidence for the Fountains of the Deep on Earth. Geologists have not ignored or misunderstood this confirming evidence; the bitter truth is that they have come across none.

    The additional material you have posted here in no way enhances your argument nor undermines those who have pointed out the weaknesses in your initial premise.

  3. lordkalvan says:

    I see you are pursuing the same claims in regard to Titan at IIDB. Your arguments are meeting with no more success there than they did at Rants ‘n Raves. Interested readers can follow the debate at: